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Ellie, welcome to The Pivot podcast this morning how are you.

I'm doing well, thank you. Thanks for having me.

It's an honor to have you here. Ellie you grew up in Waverley Nova Scotia and I was interested in knowing if you recall the moment you had the realization that you wanted to dedicate yourself wholeheartedly into the sport of gymnastics. Do you remember that feeling. And do you remember the people and programs or whatever it was early in your life that helped build your strong athletic foundation.

Yeah, so I actually grew up in Halifax, Nova Scotia. And I got into gymnastics when I was about six or seven years old. Growing up my family was always very active. We had a very family-oriented lifestyle.

We spend a lot of time outdoors. And someone suggested to my parents that they try and put me in gymnastics. And I just, I loved it ever since I started. And I think that's where that first spark came was just from stepping into the gym and seeing everybody flipping and flying. And I knew that was something that I wanted to do and it just kind of clicked really easily for me.

And you know growing up in Nova Scotia, we have such a great sense of community and support. And I think that really showed even though we had a small club, a small gym, you know a small program, gymnastics wasn't as big in Nova Scotia as it was in a lot of places in Canada or other places in the world. We had a great team there, my coach was phenomenal.

You know even though I wasn't the greatest all around, he definitely saw something in me. And he was willing to work with all the athletes to help them to achieve whatever goal that was for them. And so, I think for me it was just having a great gymnastics community here in Nova Scotia. Having a great community in general and we just had a lot of support. And you know, it's built up a lot over the years to get to where it is now.

You know it's grown so much and it's incredible to see that. But I think without that support around us, you know, it would have been very different or would have been very difficult to get to where I was. So I was very fortunate for that. And I think for me like, the moment when I started gymnastics and I just, I loved it.

But I think one of the moments that I really decided that you know, I wanted to try and go to the Olympics, I wanted to try and you know, really take it to the next level was watching actually David Kikuchi. So he's my coach now at the moment. In 2008 compete at the Beijing Olympic games representing Canada, he trained at the club that I was from.

And you know, knowing someone from Nova Scotia from your club, seeing them train and been competing at the highest level of sport in the world the Olympics, you know that was pretty incredible and pretty inspiring. So I sat down with my coach Keiji at the time. And we created a plan, which was to hopefully get us to go to the Olympics. And it didn't go exactly as planned but we did end up getting there.

You had a few things in there Ellie I thought was really interesting. But one of the things that really struck me was you said you weren't really the greatest all around. And the coaches willing to work with everyone you know to achieve whatever goal that they had.

I mean, you did just touch on this. But one of the questions I had was, did you always set out to be the best. I just, how does somebody go from not being the greatest all around to achieving the level of success you've had.

Yes. I started gymnastics and I was very strong, very energetic. You know, I got a lot of skills easily because I had a lot of muscle and strength. And, but my technique was not there. I'm not a flexible gymnast.

You know cleaning up my gymnastics it wasn't the easiest for me. And we have four events, we have the vault, the bars, the beam and the floor. And Bolton floor always came a little bit easier to me because there were like power events. Bars I struggled with a lot. I had a hard time learning how to swing on bars, I had a hard time figuring out just how to do bars really.

So I guess that's when I say I had a hard time all around. You know there were certain things that came easier to me than others. And I think that's like anything in life. You know have to stick with it, you have to keep going.

You have to keep working at it even though you're not good at it. And sometimes we have to put a little bit more attention to those areas. And so for me it took a long time, it took a really, really long time. But you know by my second Olympic games I competed in on bars and that was my highest score at the 2016 Olympics.

So you know it went from being my worst to one of my best events but it took a long time to get there. But you know, he definitely saw the potential and we never kind of gave up on that apparatus or that event just because I wasn't good at it. We wanted to keep working and see you know, how we could improve and what we could achieve it in all aspects of the sport.

Yeah. So I just think you're touching on something I really, I find this fascinating generally. You know, just a general idea of motivation. Like, why is it that some people quit at something when it gets difficult and some people just persist and you know, see that as an opportunity, perhaps. And in your case, it sounds like you know, you take it your worst events and perhaps didn't turn them into your best.

Do you have any thoughts on that? Why is it that you were able to persist?

I think of course with the support of people around me and them not giving up, and then also, my goal is I think they drove me to not give up and to keep working on it and to get better. And we all have those days where we just feel like throwing in the towel, and we're like, why am I putting in this effort? It's hard when you don't see quick change. But I think it's just having patience, trusting the process, really just believing that this hard work is going to pay off, and you're doing it to achieve what you're working towards.

And I think it just comes naturally too with the sport. It's a very competitive sport. I have a very competitive nature, and I think, for me, it was just being competitive with myself and not wanting to just take the easy way out and not do it. I wanted to be one of the best. I wanted to be able to achieve the dreams I had, and I knew that I had to continue working at it. But it doesn't mean it was necessarily easy every day or all the time. There were times where I got really frustrated, and I didn't know whether I was going to become any better at the bars or not.

Ellie, I've heard it said more than once that gymnastics is like diving, except with the ability to land in water. Sorry, except without the ability to land in water. And when I think about that statement, I think about the toll it takes on the body to maintain peak condition. Can you relate to that statement at all and share what your thoughts are?

Yeah, so I think gymnastics and diving are very similar. And I think it's definitely a sport that it takes your whole body all the time. You're using every inch of your body. And so there's-- it goes a lot into keeping up, maintaining, making sure you're staying healthy, making sure you're keeping your body at its best and conditioning. And I think that's just one of the key factors about those sports, is they're full body sports, and there's a lot of impact that goes into it. And whether you're landing on your feet or going headfirst into water, there's a lot that you need to prepare for.

Totally. And it really appears to me like you have really revolutionized the sport of gymnastics in the sense that there seemed to be this prevalence of very young petite girls that were seeing the most success in your sport, and as they matured, their window of opportunity in gymnastics gradually closed, that that's fair to say, which is in stark contrast perhaps to the male gymnasts who appeared to have longer runways. Now you come along, and you've changed all of that. I mean, you've been to three Olympic games representing Team Canada. You've won numerous national championships in your teens and in your 20s. What do you attribute your success to in terms of your longevity as a professional competitor?

Yeah, so typically, women's gymnastics many, many, many years ago was you were younger, you were smaller, you didn't stay in the sport very long because your body started to change or the training was just too much of a toll on the body. And for the men's, they develop a little bit later, so they would have a little bit longer of a career because as they got a bit older, they would actually get stronger. And I think it's something that's been phenomenal to see over the past many years is that it can be the same for the women. It doesn't have to be a short career.

You actually, as you grow, as you get older, as you develop, you can get stronger, and you gain a lot of experience. And all of these things are really going to play into helping you, compared to maybe when you're young and you don't have a lot of experience, and you also don't have a lot of body awareness. And so I think that's been very incredible to see that change and that shift. And then as well, we're seeing girls with all different body types being successful at the highest level of sport, which is amazing because everyone's unique in their own way, everyone's got something that puts them aside, stands out for them and will help them to achieve and succeed in whatever their goals are or what they're doing. So I think it's been really great to see that.

And for me, I've just had phenomenal coaches along the way. I think we've been really smart with our training plan. We didn't push too fast from a young age or overtrain. I think we did a really good balance of just being able to learn what we needed to when we needed to, but trusting the process that we're going to get to where we need to be. And doing a lot of conditioning. I think that's one of the key things is just keeping your body strong to prevent injuries, but as well, to be able to do those hard skills.

And just spread it over the years, we've tried lots of different things. We've tried what works for me, what doesn't, and learned, and now we have a pretty good idea of what we need to do. But we're always changing, and we're always learning and trying new things.

But I think we just had a really good mindset towards it, and not having a set end date. If we weren't ready, we'll just wait for the next year, the next time, and I think that's definitely just kept me in the sport as long as I possibly have because I still enjoy it, I love it, and that's the reason I do it. And my body is still healthy because we have such a phenomenal team and community behind me giving me that support I need to be able to keep training at the highest level because it is a lot. It does take a big toll on the body.

So in that regard, Ellie, can we get a sense of what a day in the life of Ellie Black looks like, in particular, maybe any routines you consider crucial?

Yeah, so for me, I have a pretty busy schedule at home. I guess a day in the life would be I train five days a week at Alta, my gymnastics club, and then two days a week at the sports center. And so I do some lifting there. I do a lifting program with my weight trainer. And so for me, it's usually getting up in the morning, making sure I'm starting the day with a proper breakfast, drinking some water, getting myself woken up and just knowing what I need to achieve that day.

Then I would go to either the sports center to do a lift and then to the gym, or if I just have the gym that day, I would head out to the gym. Training at the gym usually starts with a good stretch, a good warm-up to make sure you're warming up your body. And then we'd spend time on the different apparatus. So we have four-- we don't usually do four every day unless we're in routines in competition season. So we'll spend a good chunk of time on each event either working towards putting routines together, working on new skills, or doing routines during competition season.

And then we always finish off with some conditioning. We'll do mental routines. Sometimes we'll do trampoline work and finish off with a good stretch just to make sure we're cooling down and keeping our body strong. And then making sure you're getting good recovery. So that's either going home and having something already prepared or coming home, cooking a good meal.

Usually, throughout the week, I have multiple physio appointments. I'll have massage. Some weeks I'll have sports bike. There's a lot of extra things that go into it, so just depending on the day, you might have some of those. And then outside of that, your normal family activities, normal work activities, emails, calls, everything you possibly need to. But then as well, making sure you're having time at some point in the day or later in the evening to relax, unwind, and do good recovery, whether that's taking a bath, icing my ankles, just listening to music, watching a movie, something to just bring the body, the nervous system down and reset and get a good sleep for the next day.

Ellie, you were separated from your team in the year and a half leading up to the delayed 2020 version of the Olympic games, which for lack of a better term, was less than ideal preparation, I think it's fair to say. And notwithstanding that, you also had an injury and since had to undergo surgery. What do you believe got you through those times, and what did you have to keep telling yourself, knowing you were not physically at 100% going into competition again?

Yeah, so coming off of an injury, just starting to get back, and then COVID hit, and that was really tough because I was in that mindset of let's push, let's go, we're on the up and up towards the Olympics. And all of a sudden, everything's crashing down. There's so many unknowns. We're all in lockdown, and you don't know what's going to happen.

And I think that was tough, in a sense, because there were so many unknowns. And we felt isolated, whether that was just in general in your community and your home or isolated and not being able to see my team or do my normal activities and train. And so I've had a lot of-- I've had a lot of injuries and things that I've had to overcome in my career, and so I think a lot of these helped prepare me.

But nothing can prepare you for what we went through because no one's been through something like that before. So I just tried to pull from the experiences I've had before and try and keep a positive attitude and know that I was doing everything I possibly could with what I had in the situation we were in and trying to make the best of the moment. There's always the what ifs. There's always you wish it was different. But I think it's just taking what you have in the moment and working with that.

And so we did a lot of Zooms as a team. We would stay connected. We were out of the gym for a long while, not able to train. That's not easy for an athlete. This is our everyday life, something we've done for 20 years. And then not being able to do it and not even having the choice I think was really tough. Then the Olympics got postponed till the next year.

I think the postponement was a little bit easier because at least it wasn't canceled. At least there was still hope that it was going to go forward. And I think that drove us to keep going because we knew that that possibility was still there. So that kept us going. And just knowing that we were hopefully going to get there.

And it was really tough, though, because it wasn't a normal year. It wasn't normal training. I didn't have any competitions. I didn't see my team. It was really tough to push through, but luckily, I had a good team and family around me supporting me. Like I said, we did lots of connections for our whole team working together and just trying to make the best of that situation.

It seems to be a common thread in this conversation is the team around you, and it just got me to thinking that you have so many admirers, both at home and abroad. And in fact, I was speaking to one just the other day. Now, full disclosure, it happens to be my best friend's nine-year-old daughter. Her name is Nora Stamm. And I know she will be listening with eagerness to this podcast very soon. So Nora lives in Lancaster, Ontario, and she wanted me to ask you this. Have you ever been afraid to do a skill, and if so, how did you work through that fear?

Oh, well, hi, Nora. Thank you for the question. Yes, I have definitely been scared of many skills in my gymnastics career. I was actually scared to go backwards when I was younger. I wouldn't do anything backwards. I just went frontwards, and that was something that I really had to work towards overcoming if I wanted to go further in the sport. And even still to this day, sometimes I get scared of skills.

I have a skill on bars that I don't like doing, and sometimes it gives me a lot of grief. But I found that when I'm scared of a skill or I'm having a difficult time, I try and just take a few steps back. I try and go back to the basics, make myself feel comfortable, start working back with mats. I start to put-- I asked my coach, create a plan. How can we do this in a more comfortable way?

And then build up my confidence to be able to do it when I'm feeling better and good. And so sometimes you just have to be really patient with yourself. You have to know that it's going to take time, and you have to just have that confidence and belief in yourself that you will get over it because it may just take time, but you will get over it. And it's just putting in that extra work on those things that we're scared of or we don't want to do.

Totally. And her follow-up question was what your secret is for keeping mentally strong, even when things don't go well.

Yeah, so when things aren't going well, keeping mentally strong can be very difficult. I've had a lot of experience and practice. I wouldn't say I was the best at the beginning. And I think my coaches have instilled a lot in me. I've worked with sports psychologists to be able to help me, but I think it's just trying to have good perspective and remind yourself that what we're doing is hard. And as long as you're trying your best, you have to be proud of yourself, and you have to be happy.

And just trust that it is going to work out. You just have to keep going and keep that positive mindset. And so something that I've always done since I was younger and since my coaches have helped me out, looking on just trying to pick out a positive, something positive, not focusing on the negative.

And you look at those mistakes or those things you need to overcome, I think that you're going to learn from and get better from. So we try and turn it into a positive and not keep it so negative. But I think it's just really just taking it one step at a time, trusting yourself, trying to remind yourself of what you're working towards. Find that perspective, and try and keep it positive.

So I think what we're touching on a little bit there is something I wanted to ask you about, which is just dealing with pressure. Like, from my perspective, it seems like we just got a glimpse of the sheer degree of training you do. You said multiple physio appointments a week. Massage. Then you have the sports psychologist. There's so much time and focus and attention being put into making yourself the best version of yourself as a gymnast.

And then all that just boils down to one moment. Like, you picture yourself at an Olympic game, and I know there's several events, but really, it's just the competition time versus the training time is so vastly different than I think many other sports. How do you-- I'm curious to what those sports psychology conversation sounds like. I just feel like this would be tremendous pressure that someone would have to deal with.

Yeah, there is a lot of pressure that goes into it. And I think thinking about all the pressure and thinking about the end result and the outcome, that stuff, it's going to go through your mind. It's going to cross your mind. But we don't spend a lot of time focused and lingering on that. I think, for us, it's more of being present, being in the moment, focusing on the process and focusing on the things that you need to do to be at your best.

That's what we do every day in training, focusing on what you need to do to be able to go out there and hit that routine. You're putting in all that training time and all those repetitions, and every day when we're at training, we're there is some days where you feel more pressure or you feel a little bit more stressed, but you just taking it back to those key moments and the routine and focusing on those key words that you give yourself, focusing on the places you're looking when you're doing a skill.

And those things always stay constant. And so if we can continue to focus on those, that'll ground us as we go into the competition. So I really just try and focus on the preparation and the process and taking it one step at a time rather than making it one massive thing that is overwhelming and daunting and putting a lot of pressure on end results. Because first, you have to go out there and do it before you can think about what's going to happen after.

So yeah. Something for me is I just try not to focus on the end result. I try and focus on what's in my control and going out there with the best positive mindset, preparing as best I possibly can, knowing that if something does go wrong, I can adjust. I'm going to be able to not give up and make the best of that and keep pushing and see where that goes. But at the end of the day, you can't control what other people do. You can only control what you go out and do.

So it's focusing on that and giving it your best shot. And if you've gone out and you've done everything you possibly could under those circumstances, you have to be proud of yourself because it's never going to be perfect. In our sport, we're always trying to-- yeah, we're always trying to achieve perfection, but there's always going to be something that goes wrong or something that's off. And so it's just really going out there and giving your all.

So when I'm watching you on TV, are you feeling cool, calm, and collected, or in that moment, is your heart beating out of your chest? Does any of this stuff fully work? You know what I mean?

Oh, yeah. No, I'm definitely stressed. But I'm more stressed usually in the days prior or the morning before. When we get to the gym when we're going, you're right in your element. You're so focused on what you're doing that a lot of that goes away. And then there are moments right before you start where your heart's pounding a lot, and you're nervous to go, and that's where you have to take your brain back and really just focus, OK, what are the things in the routines that I need to focus on instead of the nerves?

Focusing on your breathing too is very helpful. I've learned that over the years is calming down your nervous system. That helps. But yeah, just really focusing on what you need to go. And then once you're going, you're so focused, you're so concentrated on what you're doing. And usually, in gymnastics, it goes pretty fast. It goes by pretty fast. Other than the beam. That one always gets you. You're always nervous on the beam.

Yeah, I could see that. Another thing, I do a fair bit of research before we interview our guests and things like that. I try not to watch too many interviews because then it's going to influence what I'm most curious of. But I noticed a recurring theme in that you're extensively referenced as Canadian Ellie Black, and obviously you are.

But what I'm saying is, I think if you're a Canadian or of any other country, you want to cheer the home country when you're watching the Olympics. You might not even be a person that is particularly into sports, and you feel this sense of pride in all those things, watching your home country succeed. Does this add to the pressure and the stress associated with the Olympics? It seems to me like you would probably be feeling some degree of Canadian pride, and I've seen some athletes at times say you feel like you let the country down if you don't do well. Does this come in your head?

I think, for me, I'm just very grateful and thankful for the opportunity to represent Canada at the highest stage of competition. Representing Canada at any international competition when I was younger was always that dream to make it on Team Canada and be able to go international and wear the maple leaf and compete. And so getting the opportunity to do that at the Olympics multiple times, that's something that not a lot of people get, that opportunity to represent Canada in that way.

And going out, I always say we have the best fans in the world. They're going to cheer you on whether it went great or it wasn't your greatest competition. But just the support we have from back home, it really does make a difference. I think we definitely have the greatest fans. They're so supportive.

I think there is definitely those moments where you don't want to let the country down, You don't want to let all your supporters down, everyone who's been behind you. But at the end of the day, I try not to worry about-- because that's out of my control. And I know I'm giving 100% when I go out every time. And I know I'm only human, and humans make mistakes sometimes.

And I think sometimes as athletes, we put ourselves in these boxes of we can't make mistakes. We have to be perfect. You've trained your whole life for this. And of course, we don't want to make mistakes, but sometimes it does happen, and that's OK, and it doesn't take away from who you are as a person or an athlete or what you've been able to achieve. And so I think that that's an important thing to remember as well.

And I know that I've had good competitions, I've had bad competitions, and either way, I've always come home, and I've had such phenomenal support. And I think that really is what also keeps me going because I know they know that I'm going out there to do my absolute best always, and if there is something that goes wrong, they're there to pick me up and keep me going.

You recently wrapped a 35-city tour called Gold Over America, featuring some of the most accomplished female gymnasts of our time, including Simone Biles, amongst many others. I was interested in knowing what you felt was the best part of your experience on that journey because judging by some of your recent posts on Twitter, it looks like you guys just had the best time. So do you mind sharing a little bit of insight about your experience there?

Yes. Simone asked me to join the tour just after the Olympics. And it was such a phenomenal experience. I didn't want to pass it up. And of course, I hurt my ankle in the summer. So during the tour, I was primarily on bars, and I didn't know exactly what this tour was going to entail. I've never done something like this before. But I was just very grateful for the opportunity to be asked.

Also because there was only myself and one other girl, Melanie from France, who were international, and the rest were local to America. And so it was kind of intimidating a little bit going in, not knowing a lot of the girls super personally. I've competed with a lot of them over the years, but some of them I've never competed with or I didn't really know. And it's definitely a new situation, but I was so excited for this opportunity because it was a chance to get to know these incredible women on a much deeper level, be able to perform and do gymnastics in front of many big crowds, get to see America.

And I love doing gymnastics. I love performing. So I think that was something that was really appealing to me. It was something I've never done and something that hasn't really ever been done was a gymnastics tour mixed with dance, and it was really a show. It was an amazing performance.

But I think something that really spoke to me about the tour was the message and what that show was all about, which was sharing the highs and the lows. I'm sharing, talking about mental health and some struggles and things we've learned along the way to hopefully share with other young people, athletes, anyone who really came to see the show that we all have gold inside of us. We're all unique and different in our own ways, and we're all going to find that and be able to share it.

But we've all got it inside, and it's not always about gold medals. It's about you and what you bring and who you are and going out there and just being the most authentic and best you and loving yourself. And so I think the messages that came from the show were so inspiring, and I feel like I learned a lot from this experience. I feel like I came out every night onto the floor feeling inspired, ready to go out there and hopefully inspire someone else in the crowd.

And it was just, yeah, an incredible opportunity as well just to tour across America, hopefully inspire others. And then also, it was awesome to be a Canadian gymnast with that opportunity to be there with all those American girls and just do the tour. But really, it was an awesome experience to just go enjoy. And I missed home, but the tour, we really became a family, and so I'll definitely miss that.

I think you should just bring the tour to Canada next year, so tell your people to make that happen. It was awesome.

Perfect. Yes. We've gotten so many requests for it, so we'll make it happen.

Ellie, you were recently hired into the RBC Olympian program, and I was wondering what you're most excited about as you take on this new role at RBC?

Yeah, so the RBC Olympians program, I've known about it actually for a while because David Kikuchi, my current coach now, he was an RBC Olympian before, and one of my previous teammates was an RBC Olympian. And so I think for me, I knew it was an incredible program, and then especially here in the Atlantic community. And I've been an RBC customer for a very, very long time, so I've been involved with RBC. And just knowing how invested RBC is in the Atlantic community, I think that was something that I wanted to be involved with. And so just knowing that you have such an amazing team behind you and you're working with them, I was very excited for that.

Very excited to learn as well and then also share some of my experiences and some of the opportunities that I've had to have a platform to share my experiences, share what I've learned, hopefully inspire others. And then as well, work with other athletes. There's so many different programs that we get to do. And so I think it's a very amazing team to be a part of.

And yeah, it's just I think I've learned so much, and I'll continue to learn so much through the program and be able to meet so many people and just exchange stories, exchange what we've learned, and grow together. But I think as an athlete, yeah, definitely in the Atlantic community, that support is number one. And so just having such a phenomenal team behind me, it's an amazing feeling.

So we're coming on to the tail end of the podcast here, Ellie, and Marcel just hit on something I really wanted to talk to you about anyway, which is basically, how does someone transition into, I don't know, I'd say regular life after being a full-time professional athlete? What does that look like perhaps for you?

Yeah, so it is actually quite difficult. There are things available, programs available to help us. And actually, the RBC Olympian program is one of those because as an RBC Olympian, you get experience within that company, public speaking, doing events. There's a lot that you get experience, and then that will help transition you out of high-level sport. But it is very difficult because as an athlete, you've devoted your life to something you're so, so passionate about, and then when that comes to a close, you're almost lost a little bit.

And so having support for the athletes to be able to work through that I think is very important. We also have some game plan programs available to the athletes to help. But I'm still training, and it is always in the back of your head of, oh, what do I want to do after I'm done? How do I transition out?

It can be daunting. It can be very nerve-wracking. It can be stressful. And so having these programs available I think is very important because that brings down a little bit less of the stress. But I'm still transitioning through it slowly. I'm not retired yet, but I'm still going to be training for a while. It's just you do have to start thinking about it early on because it is a process. But having that support I think is number one.

And hopefully, as you said, that will be a long ways off, and you're healthy and training for quite a while longer. And hopefully--

Yes.

--yes, exactly. But I've always been very curious about that. And hopefully you are able to take all these very positive opinions and remarkable things you've told us today and apply that to whatever you decide to do in the future. And perhaps, I hope I don't mess up your motto here, dream big. Don't let anyone else set your limits.

And I think that could apply to-- that could apply to anything you do. So I just think that's-- anyway, I thought that was a great motto to have here, regardless whatever you end up doing. But I think what we can do, Ellie, thanks so much for joining us. That was great. I think we touched on a lot of different topics, and I really, really appreciate you taking the time to do this.

Yeah, thank you.

Thank you, Ellie, on behalf of all of us at RBC and Canada. You make us proud. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Appreciate it.

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Jeff and I are thrilled to welcome Tareq Hadhad, founder and CEO of Peace by Chocolate on The Pivot podcast today. Tareq, how are you?

I'm doing great, my friend. Thank you for having me.

It's great to have you. Tareq, I have been looking forward to sitting down with you to have a conversation for quite some time. And I've been quietly rooting for you and your family from afar because I've been fascinated by your story. For the benefit of those who may not be familiar with your family's story and the origins of Peace by Chocolate, would you mind sharing how you got to where you are?

Absolutely. So I am Tareq Hadhad. I am the CEO of Peace by Chocolate in Antigonish, Nova Scotia. Our family has a long tradition of making chocolate since coming from Syria. In 1986 was the original when everything started in Damascus as the origin of the factory, the idea, the passion, and because my father really wanted to do something different and to make sure that chocolate is a way to communicate, great messages to community between love, kindness, compassion, and support of others.

So the factory grew really quickly in Syria, but unfortunately, it was bombed by an airstrike in the Syrian war in 2012 and our family to flee the country. We became refugees in Lebanon for three years until Canada opened the doors for us. To be honest, Canada was the only country in the world that opened the doors for us. So we were really one of the lucky ones to arrive in Canada late 2015. My family arrived in 2016.

We started the company here in Antigonish, Nova Scotia just to rebuild what was lost in the war and to frame the company in a way that speaks a lot to Canadian consumers and Canadian supporters from coast to coast to coast. The goal was to not have a business, but really build a cause and share our messages that Peace by Chocolate is there to reflect on peace by our daily conversations, by our daily actions. Because without peace no one can go to work, no one can build businesses, you cannot raise kids, you cannot do anything without peace, and we cannot record this interview without peace as well.

Tareq, you'll appreciate that as bankers we've had to have many difficult conversations with business owners during the pandemic about the challenges that they faced in navigating the complexities and the uncertainty that surrounds them. Now that being said, having heard you just speak, I haven't spoken to any whose businesses were bombed and were forced to flee their country because of war. I mean, these are considerable challenges and yet here you are, I read that you recently won the 2021 EY Entrepreneur of the Year Award for Atlantic Canada. Congratulations on that.

Thank you. Thank you.

If I may ask you, and please try not to be humble for a moment because I know you are by nature. But can I ask you what you feel is different about you that has enabled you to be successful despite what many would consider to be insurmountable obstacles?

Well, I truly believe that coming to Canada as a newcomer is an advantage by itself because you arrive here with fresh set of eyes, you arrive here knowing that you just landed to contribute, to give back to the country, to rebuild something. And the difference is we have the feeling we don't have a way back to our homeland. And that's the difference between being a refugee or being an immigrant who chose by the circumstances to just come to Canada to rebuild a life for a better future for themselves and their families. And that's not the case for refugees because we do not have the option to really go back or to rebuild anything anywhere else. So we have one shot, and we have to take it.

So being in Canada has been that lucky ticket for us. It was our way to rebuild what was lost. And for me, coming from an entrepreneurial family, that certainly was a great asset as well because my background is in medicine, so I was not part of the business in Syria. And I had to learn a lot of things since coming to Canada with the great support of friends. I don't take credit for anything at all.

There's been a great network of people around me that they have been very supportive from everyone in Antigonish who has welcomed our family who has donated to bring our family without knowing us, everyone from the marketing team who supported us. And this is marketing everyone from our neighbors who was there for us to bring us everything we needed in the beginning because we arrived in the middle of the winter. And we knew how cold it could be and everyone was just giving us that such warmth. And with that warmth, we felt that we are welcomed and we are part of the country.

So we have been really lucky and fortunate to be in a small town like Antigonish as well and that contributed to the success, is because if we have arrived in a big city like Toronto or Vancouver or Montreal, I think, our chances for success would have been still there, but it would have taken us a longer time because we could have been treated as numbers. If you walk on Bay Street in Toronto, no one would know that you are a newcomer because everyone is busy there. No one would notice you, but the funny fact is we are not on Bay Street in Toronto, but we are on Bay Street in Antigonish.

[LAUGHTER]

So that such difference made our journey possible because we restarted again making chocolate in the home kitchen within after one month of landing here. So it was really, really amazing to see that the chances and the possibilities are really limitless for newcomers. And to be honest no one asked us for anything. We were treated like Canadian citizens, except we couldn't vote. When we arrived at the airport, we had every single right like every other Canadian-- the right to access health care, employment, support, travel across the country with no restrictions before the pandemic. All of that was what really contributed to our success.

So I certainly don't take credit for any of that success. I have to be humble because nothing really happened because only of me. It was only because we are in a great community that cares a lot about us, and we now have them as our big family.

Well, I have been to Antigonish, and I've seen inside the building that houses the room where you and your father started, essentially resurrecting the family chocolate business that you started in Syria. And I couldn't help, but marvel that it is a room, the size of a small bedroom, if that's fair to say. It's not very big. And I know the people of Antigonish, Nova Scotia have supported you and your family business from day 1.

And I was just wondering what that support has meant to you then and what it means to you now as you look to the future and lead the growth of Peace by Chocolate? I mean, you have plans to grow this thing. What does that mean to you?

Absolutely, that support has been the main inspiration for me, for my family because at some point when we have survived the war, we have lost our faith in humanity. At some point, you would just see everything dark. You wouldn't really see the light at the end of any tunnel because this is the life that we had to live for like three years.

There is no chance for us to go back to Syria. There is no chance for us to restart our lives fully or to even get any other citizenship around the world. So the inspiration came originally from Canada, came originally from Nova Scotia, the community in Antigonish. They are the ones who really ignited that passion in us to restart the business and to contribute to the economy and to offer jobs and to do whatever was possible.

And the other thing I learned from Antigonish is you don't only start a business for profit, don't only start a business for caring about the major principles, the textbook of the CEOs that has been played, being played for a long time. I learned from Antigonish, there's something else called-- you don't care only about ROI, the return on investment. You only care, as well as a CEO. First thing, when you wake up in the morning about the ROK, the return on kindness. So you have to care about what is coming back from the kindness towards your community, towards the support of causes that we believe in as a business, and the people.

Without the care about the people, we wouldn't have Peace by Chocolate. This is the origin. I mean, so many businesses around the world right now, when you sit in that boardroom, everyone will be talking about the financial statements and you don't see that line about kindness. No one really talks about that.

Everything people see are margins and returns and gross profit, and that's what they made at the end of the year. And no one really talks to shareholders about what could a business do when they care about society, when they care about the environment, when they make good products at the same time. So it doesn't have to be one or the other. You can merge all of those values together. You can make good products, you can care about society, you can care about the environment.

So you have to make sure that you take these decisions wisely as a business owner, as a CEO because we are in a time where we are seeing this huge shift in the focus of consumers and the attention that they pay to stories behind businesses. It's not only you now going into grocery store or going into a gift shop or going online on a website and say, well, I like this product because it just grabbed my attention. You're going to research. People are spending more time than ever researching.

And the social media mutation over the past few years has just benefited all of small businesses. Every single business owner now has their own platform to tell their stories and we are seeing that people are paying more attention than ever. So I truly believe that we are lucky first to be in this community.

We are lucky to be in Nova Scotia because our story has gone from Nova Scotia to be a national platform of voices for newcomers and refugees, as well as international phenomenon. And for those who maybe have not watched that the speech that has given us that whole new level for our company, it was a speech by the Prime Minister Justin Trudeau when he went to the United Nations in 2016. And he delivered that speech about our family and our story.

He was talking to world leaders. He was talking to President Barack Obama. He was talking to the to Angela Merkel. He was talking about us to the French President. Everyone was sitting there in the room listening to our story.

A small town in Nova Scotia called Antigonish made it not only to national news at that time, made it to the international news, and we started getting calls from everywhere around the globe. We were like where can I buy your chocolate in Bermuda? Where can I buy your chocolate in Japan? And I'm like, sorry, guys, so we cannot ship right now.

We were all overwhelmed by the support. We opened our website in 2016, on December 5th. It was really close time to the holidays and we were so limited with what we can make. Every piece of chocolate we were making was already sold a month ago, and it was really amazing to see that.

So we opened our website, we made it live, and then within a few hours, we had to shut it down. We were getting thousands of orders online. Who shuts their website down because they are selling too much? That was really crazy.

So the inspiration came right from there when we have seen the amazing spirit of humanity and the power of compassion coming together to advocate for our cause, and that's what continued with us. And if you go on our website peacebychocolate.ca, you would find that picture of the community coming with us to celebrate every occasion, every anniversary. The grand opening of our factory was something I would never forget in 2017 when we have seen thousands of people drive from everywhere in Nova Scotia, even people came from New Brunswick, from PEI to attend it, and it was something remarkable. I would really never forget it.

Tareq, there are so many things in there, so many amazing things you just said I wanted to expand on and maybe try to unravel. But one thing that really fascinates me is you referred to yourself as fortunate. You spoke about the power of compassion, but you're also in a very unique position, and Marcel alluded to this earlier-- a very unique position to have lost everything at one point in your life, and you've rebuilt.

I can only begin to imagine how difficult that would be. Can you give us some insight as to how you stayed motivated? What do you tell yourself?

I think everything in regards to having passion contributes to your daily contributions to yourself, to your team, to your company, to your cause your community. And you really don't need that much of power to get up every day and really think, what change can I add to the world? What are the things that I want to see and I want to change in our planet that our kids can really thank me for and can enjoy having a better life than the ones that they had? And the first thing that comes to my mind is-- I don't have kids now, but my kids in the future.

I want them to come to me and say that it was the right cause because they didn't have to live through a war that their dad had to live, that their grandfather had to live, and that really just gets me up every morning when I open my eyes and I'm like, there is no time to waste. Let's get to work.

There's no time to waste because I'm still seeing that humanity is repeating the same mistakes again and again from countries around the world who are still with ravaging wars. People fleeing their home countries. The number of refugees is not decreasing, it's increasing around the world as well. So this is something that I truly believe contributes to my daily motivation.

The other part of it is gratitude. Gratitude leads to motivation. In many ways, people never really think about it and having lived through the experiences that I am so grateful for had led me to think about the very basics that people even don't think about. For example, in the morning when you wake up, no one thinks about, oh, we have power today, we have water.

I can go get a shower whenever I want. I can just open the fridge, and I can find all the food that I just got. I can go to a grocery store. I can buy anything.

I can drive. I can walk. I can bike. I can do anything. And I found that Canadians don't think about that.

This is something that many people take for granted. For example, even that there was an election a few days ago, and many people were like, yeah, we can vote, but I'm busy. So many people are dying around the world today to have that right and to exercise their right to vote.

These simple things really are the ones that keep me motivated. We are living in a country that we are one of the G7 one of the G20. Canadians are free to express their opinions, to practice their faith, to do whatever they want. So why don't we be grateful for that? And why don't we think about those around the world who are fighting for these basics?

And I think starting from there, magic can happen. If everyone wakes up every morning, thinking about I am blessed and I am privileged and I am lucky and I am fortunate to be in a country where I don't have to worry about my basics, then we are in the next level. Then we talk about how do we support those in need around the world.

How can we make a difference so our country does not go into war? How can we advance these conversations that nobody else around the world is talking about? For example, when I came to Canada I just said that-- and when I became a Canadian citizen last year, I just said I did not just on the country's excellence, but I also owned its mistakes and failures because we have to think about the positives and the negatives.

And that led me to start many initiatives. And that was the inspiration behind something else called the Peace on Earth Society that we founded in 2017. It is the social wing of our business where we talk about causes like mental health.

We talk about supporting Indigenous communities. We talk about supporting refugees arriving in Canada. We talk about supporting LGBTQ plus communities around the world. And we have been really inspired by the support that we have been giving and receiving from the Canadian Red Cross since 2016 after the wildfires in Fort McMurray in Alberta. Because we knew that as a settled family in Nova Scotia, we had to give back to Canadians, even on the other side of the country, because this country has given us a lot.

So in summary, motivation does not hit you in the bed. The motivation asks you to just get out there and share your ideas. And I think it's all about starting with the gratitude that leads to creativity and that's how you keep going.

As someone who grew up in Canada, I can assure you I do not spend nearly enough time thinking about how grateful I should be that I live here. Now you touched on a couple of things there. I've read a few press releases and things like that and some of your public speeches and all those things, and they're all wonderful. And what really struck me is you've said some truly amazing things about Canada. You've already done so in this podcast.

I got one quote here. Canada stands for freedom, opportunity, equality, fairness, and inclusion. And I've always felt this way too. We've spoken to all kinds of guests about why they continue to live in Canada, and in particular in Nova Scotia. We already touched on that in this podcast.

But really I'd be very curious what challenges have you faced since coming to Canada, perhaps as part of the process of coming here or perhaps as part of becoming a citizen? To your point, there's always ways to make things better. And I'm very curious to what challenges you faced, and hope you don't mind elaborating on that.

Absolutely. I think it's all about the mindset. In the beginning many, many newcomers first challenges in regards to their integration to their language to feeling that they can't reach where they want or come back to their careers that they left back home.

So many people they can't get their credentials like myself, for example. When I came to Canada, I was just passionate about going back into medicine and that did not happen because the system in this country is if you come with a degree like medicine, you have to go get re-evaluated, maybe do an undergraduate degree again. Some people ask you to do high school. It's really challenging.

So these were really the first challenges. But then, I sat down with myself after one month of arriving here and I said, well, I can spend another 10 years trying to get into med school or I can just start the family business again. And that would be not only for my benefit, for my family's benefit to integrate in this country, and for the society's benefit as well. And it just happened from there.

And along the way there are always problems that you have to overcome to be careful about, but there are two options. If you have a challenge in your life, there are two options. You can sit down and complain about it or you can dig down and find solutions. So I felt that the second option, for me, was more meaningful.

And whatever had shown in our way, although I had no clue about registering a business, incorporating a business, even reading a financial statement in 2016, or even knowing, getting focus groups going from Canadians or from potential customers and designing packaging or really talking about ingredients lists or making recipes and all of that stuff. And it just had to happen. It just had to be learned and everything, since 2016, has been different. I celebrated in December 2020 my fifth year anniversary of landing in Canada, and it's been a remarkable journey.

There are challenges every day that newcomers face, I think, can really determine their future in this country easily. There are things starting by the cultural shock. When a newcomer family arrives in Canada after one month or one year or even five years, at some point, they will ask themselves the question, what am I doing here?

And everyone will have different answers. Everyone would be like, I'm here for a reason. I'm here because I can't go back. I'm here because I decided to come here, and I'm here to be an example. I'm here to give back.

So starting from there, many people would reach their own peace. And so many people would be struggling with that for a while, with that question, what am I doing here? How is that helping me? Or did I build my network again?

Did I build my s my sense of family again? Do I feel that I belong? Do I feel that I have my identity? All of those questions will come at certain point to newcomers that no one born in Canada has to think about, which is really different than just living your entire life here or being born in Canada and just becoming or being Canadian by birth, because being Canadian by birth versus being Canadian by choice are two completely different things.

Canadians by choice are facing these questions. And so many lead to greatness. So many of those answers lead to greatness.

Tareq, you're very active on Twitter and other media, and you've spoken about the importance of immigration to Canada's long-term prosperity. Speaking as both an entrepreneur and an immigrant, as you've mentioned, what do you feel we need to improve as a country in order to better support immigrants who want to create opportunities not only for themselves, but for others that you have done in Canada.

Well, Canada is doing a fantastic job already to give credit to the IRCC people, the team who is working around the clock now to bring in hundreds of thousands of immigrants every year, make sure that they are settled in very well, that they are integrated, that they are connected to their sponsorship agreement holders across the country, to their community, to their families if they are getting a reunification. So I think Canada has the system that the world is envying. I was in the UK in 2019 and I spoke there on the parliament, and many people were coming, asking us Canadians about how does Canada do this.

How do people get connected to their communities? How does even sponsorship work between the community? If they want to come together, form a group of five, and just sponsor a refugee from around the world and apply to the government, and then the connections will happen ultimately.

So the system itself is working. I'm not so much in depth about that, but I think that if Canada can focus more about highlighting the benefit for newcomers of being in small communities, not only featuring Montreal or Toronto or Vancouver on these pamphlets or on the website and telling newcomers that you can have a very happy and successful life in a small town, I think we will create a much more balanced country. For example, in Nova Scotia, you would see many newcomers don't know anything about smaller communities, they don't know anything about the rest of Nova Scotia other than Halifax. Many newcomers just prefer to arrive and stay there. Many newcomers arrive in small communities, and then leave to big cities.

So we have seen that in Nova Scotia because many people thought that the opportunity is bigger in a big city while the difference is this is not entirely true. I've seen even that imbalance is creating so many challenges for the long-term sustainability of these communities because at a certain point, you need you need people for a community to thrive in the first thing. You cannot just ask newcomers to stay in a big city because a community like Antigonish 5,000 people plus 5,000 University students, there are many challenges in regards to the labor market when you need people to be hired in your business. And you find that this is really a big issue coming forward because of people just coming and arriving in big cities.

So I really believe that Canada has a great role to play in promoting to newcomers that, saying, again, a small community and raising a family can deliver a higher quality life even than living in a big city. I think if you will understand that the system would work much better. And I think communities have the same role to play in making sure that newcomers are very, very well integrated.

Antigonish has played really an amazing role. I was the first Syrian to arrive in Antigonish in 2015. And my mom called me Neil Armstrong who arrived on the moon.

[LAUGHS]

I was like-- that was really interesting for our family. It's like we are arriving and we are starting a Syrian community in Antigonish. And now there are over 20 families. So it was really incredible to see how the community has grown in a short period of time.

But that did not come without challenges without hard work from the community itself. And I truly believe that the immigration people, the immigration team in the country. The federal and provincial ones can do a great job as well by letting people know that there is an option for you to stay in a small community to restart your business or to study in a small university in a small town and to build your connections there.

Well, it's interesting because some people who I spoke with that I told you're coming on the podcast shortly would suggest that your success as it is in quotation marks, "it's the exception to the rule" that somehow all that you've accomplished is one in a million occurrence. Tareq, what would you say to those people who look at you and think to themselves, I'm not sure I could ever face what he faced and make it in the real world? What would you say to those people?

Well, I don't stereotype. I don't generalize either. I don't say, this is what's going to happen if you arrive. This is you 100% chance to succeed.

What we are doing is just we are giving an example. We are telling the people what is possible and telling them what is possible and hopefully, giving them a reason to rethink. That is enough for me.

Changing mindsets, as well is a big role that I hope that we are playing in the family. I know that I've met many politicians in Nova Scotia either who mentioned to me that the approval rates of immigration in Nova Scotia has grown significantly after many families arrived, but also we started a campaign for that in 2016. And I've been really trying to communicate to Nova Scotians that newcomers are here to contribute. And when I was going through towns-- I've been everywhere in Nova Scotia. I've been everywhere, even in The Maritimes and across the country, but I felt that people are more approving of something when they see the result.

Yeah.

In 2015, when people were like, yeah, let's bring Syrian refugees to Canada and some people were hesitant about it. When I came to even to Antigonish, someone came to me and he was like, why did you come to our town to take our jobs? And I went to him and I said, well, I did not come here to take jobs. We came here to create them. And that same guy came back to me after six months, and he was like, well, you were true to yourself and you were right.

So giving people the reason to rethink their opinions and where do they stand on the spectrum of supporting other human beings, I think, it is a noble thing, and we are so proud of it. But at the end of the day, as you mentioned, we might be the exception to the rule, we might not. We might be creating our own rules. And every newcomer can create their own rules as well.

They don't have-- not only a newcomer, but if you are moving from one place to another in the country, you can do everything different. You don't have to follow the rules because sometimes, I think, we have these prejudices against ourselves. If there is a set of rules, yeah, we cannot do this kind of thing or we cannot start this type of business because we don't have customers. And I think the rules are changing very rapidly that no one can keep up.

Starting a business is no longer related even to a location because of ecommerce, for example. You don't have to be anywhere. You can do whatever you want.

You can sell whatever you want because this massive opportunity on the internet that just show that to everyone and we have seen the benefit of it and the significance of it even after the pandemic. I'm pretty sure you have talked to many entrepreneurs who told you the same, but we are living in a very interesting time. There are many ways.

The other thing about smaller communities and proving the other rule for us, specifically, is you can target a bigger audience from a small place. You can target a national audience. You can target even international audiences from a small space.

I think one of the challenges that would be faced is attracting and retaining talent in a smaller place. This can be one of the challenges for short for businesses if they want to scale up. But as I mentioned, you can sit down and complain or you can dig down and find solutions.

Create your own rules, I really like that, I'm going to start. Maybe I'll write that in my office somewhere, Tareq. I really like that one.

You also mentioned earlier about identity and coming in as an immigrant. And while I was preparing for this podcast, just coincidentally, I believed at the time it was unrelated. I read an article on imposter syndrome, the idea that maybe even though you're succeeding and you're doing the things you're doing, that you don't really feel like you're that person or that you've accomplished this or so on and so forth.

It's not exactly in the same context, but it got me thinking. Not that long ago, you were in Syria training to be in medicine. And all of a sudden, you find yourself in Nova Scotia, the prime minister is mentioning you in a speech on a global scale, you're a sought-after motivational speaker who runs a chocolate company. Does any of this feel real?

[LAUGHS]

That's the question I ask myself every day. It's like, is that real? I truly believe that there are phases in everyone's life where there are turning points that you cannot see, even in the past.

I don't believe I'm living in a circle, but I'm living rather in a square. When I reached the edge to the next phase, I cannot really even look back and see what happened in my previous life because I have to focus on finishing that line to reach the next phase. And certainly, using the past experiences in a positive way is something to be considered, but for me, personally, I think the huge shift that we have to take had not been easy.

We, as a family, have been through a lot of, I think, separation as well from our own reality and our own connection to family members because we used all to live together in Damascus. My entire family were living all together in one building in Damascus where we used to have the supper together every Saturday in my grandmother's house, where there was a giant room that can fit 60 of us on a dinner table. So imagine having to be separated from all of that at once and being asked to leave.

And as I mentioned, we are so grateful to be connected now through social media. I think it is a great way to reconnect with your family and build even new community around you. But certainly, sometimes I don't feel it's real to be honest with you, Jeff.

It is hard to believe that even five years from now, do I have to make the same decisions? When you live through that, you would reach a point when you would be asking yourself, is that the long-term thing? Am I going to do this forever? Or are there going to be another turning point that I have to take and just shift everything.

But I think once you reach that level of asking yourself that question, then you are in the right place because you have to build that foundation of thoughts and opinions and base and faith that has to support you for the long run. Not only on a short-term focus, but also focusing on what's coming next and how can you use what you have learned in a short period of time to fuel your growth for the future. So I always ask my myself the questions.

What am I grateful for? What am I proud of? And what are the things that I look forward to? And whenever I ask myself these questions, I think, I set myself into personal goals and dreams that I have to keep focused on.

Maybe we can move back on something that ties into what you just said, what do you expect yourself from the future, but I want to know more about the Peace on Earth Society. And can you give us a sense of what you're trying to accomplish with this organization?

Absolutely, so the Peace on Earth Society is an organization that we started in 2017. It was mainly because we in the business decided to donate proceeds of our proportions, portions of our profit every fiscal year to support different causes. Plus, we wanted to have permanent partnerships.

So if you go on our website, you would see under the Peace on Earth Society page that we have partnered with many organizations like the Canadian Mental Health Association where we have designed a chocolate bar called the Peace of Mind. We have designed chocolate bar called Welcome to Canada where proceeds go to refugee help to support the resettlement of refugees and supporting all their needs across the country. We have partnered with many Indigenous communities and particularly the Community of Paq'tnkek near our town of Antigonish through a program called Nitap, which means buddy in Mi'kmaw to support activities in their communities.

At the same time, we have started supporting Phoenix Youth Programs in Halifax. Throughout our pride bars, we support Red Cross throughout our Nova Scotia collection after the mass shooting that happened in Nova Scotia and we felt that we had to support the Nova Scotia strong campaigns. So we created that chocolate bar to support that cause in the beginning. So many of our products actually are dedicated already to different causes, and you will see that this is a unique way to do it.

We are figuring out now the bigger picture for our Peace on Earth Society, where how do we connect the society to the global peace on a more in-depth level. We have to ask ourselves coming forward. As I mentioned, the site is now four years old. We have been lucky that we have got a lot of support from people. We have got a lot of great feedback that people are willing to learn more to be involved.

We have not really been able to accomplish or do any events or organize any of the targeted goals because we had a lot planned already last year and this year, but we had to cancel. But I feel really that we have a great chance to support a lot of those causes. At the same time, I think, many people today don't know that we have made a commitment in 2019 through our partnership with an organization called Tent Partnership for Refugees. And I really encourage all private sector leaders to connect with that partnership. See how they can support refugees, hire refugees, support businesses started by refugees.

Our business, we committed to hire 50 refugees within the next few years. We have committed to support 10 businesses started by refugees in mentoring. And we have committed to support four businesses started by refugees in distribution by the end of next year. So we have been really lucky to connect with many amazing refugee entrepreneurs across the country to amplify their voices, to tell the world what they are capable of, that they are human beings who came to Canada like our family. They lost everything in the war maybe, but they did not lose their talents and their skills because this is something you don't lose in a war.

There's so many things here, Tareq. I almost feel overwhelmed by the amount of great things we've discussed in this podcast. We've had you for over 40 minutes already now, and I really appreciate your time. I just want to come back to a little bit of where we started, just to end the podcast.

Marcel said he's been watching you from afar. And me and, I think, every Nova Scotian has been feeling the same, who has been following your story. It's just remarkable what you guys have all been able to accomplish here.

Now I asked earlier about imposter syndrome, and what's funny is part of the reason I asked that is because, to me, it feels like almost like an imposter syndrome that I'm having this discussion with you right now in that similar idea because I could not have foreseen this ever taking place. I try to end this podcast on a positive note, and I hope I'm able to do this here with our final question. What I be really interested in hearing from you, given how positive you are, given the fact that you've been able to survive and thrive in a remarkable climate, do you have a message for those still living in Syria or perhaps with family in Syria who I'm sure spend tremendous amount of time worrying about their loved ones? Do you have a message of hope perhaps?

Absolutely. I think it is really important to mention to whoever is struggling all over world, whether they are in Syria, whether they are outside of Syria, to always remember that you have a great chance of changing the cycle of your life.

We are just one example of too many. I think we are a result of our hopes and our dreams. Our work today is a result of our hopes and dreams.

So I think as long as people are hopeful, I don't know, I cannot guarantee how long it will take, but there are always better days ahead. And I am pretty sure everyone can relate to that. There are always ups and downs. There are always points where you think, yes, I have reached the lowest of lows, but they are always as well great ways to adjust, adapt, to restart again, to refuel your growth, to feel that there is something bigger going to happen to you.

So I truly believe to say to all of those newcomers and refugees, keep believing, keep dreaming, keep being hopeful, and keep being optimistic. I am pretty sure that kindness is limitless and there are people around the world who are there for you, although you don't know them, although they don't know you, but at some point you, guys will connect. And I truly hope that within our collective efforts as human beings to support causes that mean a lot to people around the world, we can do the impossible.

I'm in Canada because of a very kind act of a cab driver in Lebanon who really told me about coming to Canada. And without that five minute that I had to talk to him, I wouldn't have been here. I know. He mentioned to me about the scholarship at the embassy. I applied to it, and that's how I connected to come here.

So I may never meet him again. That small act of kindness may never be paid back to the same man, but I'm trying to pay it forward to other people around the world. And these small acts of kindness are everywhere so that's really what gives me hope.

You asked me earlier about my motivation. That's another reason for motivation and for being hopeful every day that I would like everyone to listen to. I'm sure.

Listen. Thanks so much, Tareq.

That was really amazing. Thank you so much for having me and for all the questions. And I hope that I have really helped other people about their own perspective. And at the end of the day, no one can go back and start a new beginning. But everyone can start today and make a new ending.

Thank you, Tareq. Really appreciate it.

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Jeff and I are thrilled to have Dr. Mike Moffatt on The Pivot podcast today. Mike is a Senior Director of the Smart Prosperity Institute of Canada, and is also Canada's first Chief Information Fellow in our federal government, amongst many other accomplishments. Welcome to the podcast, Mike.